I sorta like the idea of having an entire building because we can rent out office space to other organizations, which would make us less dependent on parties and merch, which aren't at all steady, reliable streams of revenue.

But you're right the residential surroundings make it less usable as an event space (unless we soundproofed it...) There's also the question of gentrification - a place like sunset park is a residential, working class immigrant neighborhood. Unless we can find a way to benefit a place like this (and most importantly work with members of this community to do so) we'd end up in a weird situation that many other centers in the city have been in. I wasn't thinking in terms of the neighborhood so much when I posted it.

In industrial neighborhoods like the industrial part of bushwick it wouldn't be a problem because their's not as much of a community for us to impact. The Navy Yard's probably similar... should we aim for a low-impact area?

In terms of the spaces you mentioned, the first one looks promising but really expensive (I've been trying to aim for things as close to a dollar per sqft as I can). However, being able to have a sign that people on the bqe can see would be really cool. Red hook is a good industrial neighborhood, but the problem is it's really hard to get to a train around there. I guess that place "the hook" pulls it off, but it's confusing and hard to find. We should look at it.

The second one you mentioned appears to be a section of a larger loading space they just put wood around. I don't think we'd be able to do events there, I think they're expecting people would use it as a loading dock. The price is right though...

we'll get a space as soon as we can. we would need first month, last month and a security deposit, plus a few months of rent so we can have enough time to get set up. all and all, we'd need between $7,000 - $15,000 saved up before we get the space, depending on how expensive it is. Right now Misled Youth has like $800. If the party went really really well, we could profit up to $1500. basically, we're not gonna be in the position to get a space for a while. It depends on what other organizations want to contribute though...

that space looks great, but I don't know if they'd let us throw parties there - it would be a great office space though, and if they did let us through parties it would be unbelievable. it's up to the landlord I guess.

It's not in Manhattan - it's in Queens. 5 blocks from Queens Plaza. But that is a very accessible part of Queens... we should look at it. It seems like they'd only want to rent it as office space though.

take a look at this: http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/off/359103617.html. It's super cheap for the amount of space, it's on the ground floor, 6 blocks from the train... it's in flatbush.

really good point...

We need to figure out a complete budget. Even if we're partly guessing, we need to anticipate the range of expenses. Another likely expense is sound-proofing or otherwise setting up the space with room dividers, desks or tables, lights, etc.

that looks promising. It's in sunset park, same as the building I suggested. that's close to park slope... fairly convenient to get to by train.

we now have a pretty large list of spaces. we should all get together (you, me, brendan, leanne, and anyone else who was interested in looking at spaces) and start contacting these people.

I was talking to brendan about the logistics of getting a space... these $4000 spaces, though very nice, would require a lot of money saved up. at least $20,000, because we would have to give them $12,000 just for first month, last month and security, leaving us with two months back up rent. that's a lot of money...

what if we get a really small cheap space soon, throw parties til we get evicted, then use that money to get a medium sized space (like some of the ones we found) that would be more permanent and where the landlord let us do what we want. Something below the $2,000 range might be a manageable temporary space... doesn't even necessarily have to be commercial...

Wow...

That's cheap enough to be paid for without raising $10k+... between income as a studio, a few shows and parties, and maybe some contributions from us individually to start, we could pull that off. I think we should look into it. Maybe some bands could commit to a certain amount per month to use it to practice or record...

i'm really excited about the possibility of this space and how it can take misled youth's and a bunch of other people's work to another level.

I share all the concerns nick mentioned. I also have tons of ideas i can elaborate on once i get this serious shit written down. One concern I have is how misled youth spends its time and energy at a time (now) that could be a major crossroads for us. Most of the organizing we've all done together has been putting events and workshops for the public, and/or trying to raise money for our various projects. But I think we all feel that we haven't done nearly as much of the projects and learning groups and taking action as we want to. Our biggest goal this summer was to get those things off the ground. Of course having access to this space can rally help us make that happen. My concern is that the work needed to pay our rent and develop this space could overshadow the self education we want to do. The obvious answer is to combine them – learn while we do is we’re building walls, painting murals, running small businesses, and coordinating a million and a half things. We’ll also have to be making money all the time (I estimate $500 to $1000 in the beginning) to build and sustain the space. Personally I’m a little burnt out on booking punk shows and selling beer to raise money. I would much rather see us doing more artistic and educational things for an income. And better yet would be doing those creative things in place of fundraising as our contribution to this space. Of course we’ll have to do some of both, we just have to think about how we can go about doing this space thing in the best way for ourselves and misled youth as a whole.

I’m a bit pessimistic about the space trying to serve the needs of the community (ie people who’ve been there for more that a year or two, people in the projects, etc). Most of the people using and running the space will be outsiders, and bridging that gap is obviously very difficult. I haven’t seen any punk/activist/artist spaces really integrate with the people who were in the neighborhood before they came along. Most don’t really try. Perhaps I’m wrong, but this is my experience. Still, I couldn’t live with myself if we didn’t even consider trying. I don’t want to be a part of the gentrification process. I am starting to brainstorm some local (within a few stops on the G, L, or JMZ lines) groups and organizations that might be able to offer advice and support or perhaps collaborate on and use this new space. That way the space will actually be relevant to the community. Connecting with them is important; the bonds we make are like a web that slows down the gentrification mosquito. (forgive me if that’s a horrible metaphor, I haven’t made time for creative writing in a while).

I will post my ideas about who we can connect with as they come to me, people do the same.

One other thing we were wondering about is if electrical costs were figured into the $1000 estimate Thaddeus gave for building the rooms, since they’ll need outlets.

Anyway, those are my main concerns. Now for the fun brainstorm part:

The ceilings are 12 feet high on the first floor! We should build tons of lofts for sleeping, storage, watching events, and lounging.

I think we should build out not only the bedrooms but another room as a studio/work/meeting space. Otherwise the noise and distraction of the public in the bookstore will mess up people trying to create things or have discussions. Since we need to build out these rooms anyway, we might as well put windows we find into some of the walls. Being able to see between one roon and another would be fine between the bookstore and workspace, but probably wouldn’t be ok for the bedrooms. What we could do is add transoms, which are short little windows over a door or up near the ceilings, which would let in more natural light without compromising anyone’s privacy. I think it would look cool too. And murals and mosaics and stencils would be badass.

I like the idea of having the bookcases on wheels with hinges so they fold up and roll out of the way. We should make everything in the space as compact and secure and collapsible as possible. Like what if we had benches that were hinged to the wall and they could flip up whenever we weren’t using them?

That’s just some crap for now. I gotta get to sleep though. Let’s talk about this!

--sarah

the place looks awesome, a lot of potential. can i get the address? my aunt lives in brooklyn and if i cant find anywhere else to stay when i first get up there i might have to rent out her attic from her. i am worried about the fire codes though. if you have events in the basement you're required to have more than one exit i believe. it looks to me like theres a false wall of some sort in the basement that could possibly be made into another exit, but it might just be the picture.

that layout looks really good. how long do you think it will take to get all that up and running?