A Bit Iffy

Submitted by Razor on Tue, 01/30/2007 - 9:07pm.

Razor

Posts: 14
Joined: 2007-01-30

I don't want to sound pessimistic, or try and play devil's advocate, but do youth in general really have the skills and experience necessary to lead? My argument is that youth do not respect other youth as people most of the time, and therefore will not follow them willingly.

The exceptions to this rule are few and far between. Name an example of a contemporary youth who, acting without support of adults, was able to successfully lead a group toward a definite goal.

Common student leadership examples abound: student council, section leaders, football captains, etc. However, these all have the common thread that these positions are endorsed and enforced by adults, who most youth have been trained to respect and obey from birth.

So, this definitely begs a serious question; how does one command the respect and devotion of a group of youth if one is in fact a youth?

My own opinion is that young people today have no respect for each other, no common ground to share, and are much too caught up in the smaller things to notice the issues and problems their fellows deal with.

How to solve this? There isn't a solution. It's just an unfortunate fact that a great percentage of young people will indeed be involved in what some may consider shallow pursuits as opposed to stopping genocide, relieving hunger, ending discrimination, or what have you. If it's not a part of your life, and important to you, will you really care?

So, what do you guys think? The only real exception to this I see is if something has personally affected someone, and then they care enough to do something about it.

Tue, 01/30/2007 - 11:07am

xcriteria

Posts: 92
Joined: 2006-12-04

Damn, you do sound pessimistic. I can think of two main ways of responding... one involves the question of how practical it is for a young person to lead others, especially without support from adults. Another is just the question of what young people can do individually, or by communicating with others, without anyone trying to lead anyone else. A lot of what Misled Youth is about is just communicating and encouraging and supporting each other developing ourselves, succeeding on our own terms instead of (or in addition to) those of society, etc. And even if a lot of youth are apathetic, disrespectful, conformist, etc., not all are. And a lot who aren't, are isolated. So a big goal of this project, and site, is to to do something about that.

When it comes to active leadership, as in the form of activism, things can be tough. I don't personally have much experience in that area, so I'll leave it to others to address that at this point.

Even if what you say is accurate about most young people, there are some who care about things, and I think that in a lot of cases, people are -- or can be -- interested at least in their own life and doing something more with it than other people expect of them.

What do you think of that?

Tue, 01/30/2007 - 11:25am

nick

Posts: 13
Joined: 2007-01-28

Hi Razor!

This is an interesting point. First of all, I agree with the idea that, generally, many young people are less experienced than adults, and therefore it is more difficult to make major changes to society. However, I don't see that as a reason not to try to make a difference.

Secondly, I generally disagree with the mentality of leadership. I recognize that sarah (kid_prototype) used that term several times in the intro thread. This word is used a lot in activist circles to describe people who take initiative or make a change in things. Here's some of the many definitions of "lead" from dictionary.com:

Quote:

1. to go before or with to show the way; conduct or escort: to lead a group on a cross-country hike.
2. to conduct by holding and guiding: to lead a horse by a rope.
3. to influence or induce; cause: Subsequent events led him to reconsider his position.
4. to guide in direction, course, action, opinion, etc.; bring: You can lead her around to your point of view if you are persistent.
5. to conduct or bring (water, wire, etc.) in a particular course.
6. (of a road, passage, etc.) to serve to bring (a person) to a place: The first street on the left will lead you to Andrews Place.
7. to take or bring: The prisoners were led into the warden's office.
8. to command or direct (an army or other large organization): He led the Allied forces during the war.
9. to go at the head of or in advance of (a procession, list, body, etc.); proceed first in: The mayor will lead the parade.
10. to be superior to; have the advantage over: The first baseman leads his teammates in runs batted in.

In almost all of those definitions leadership implies followers, which is how most people think of the word, how I tend to think of the word, and apparently how you read it. Definition 3, however, is the closest definition sarah was trying to use.

So, my point is that no, we are in no way experienced enough to lead other people. But I don't think that's what it's about. Our goal is only to promote education outside of forced environments. This section (Youth Activism and Advocacy) is meant to be a place for young people to express their opinions on the state of the world, share relevant information and support each other, not to lead everyone into some revolution.

Finally, I also think there are plenty of people, especially young people, who are concerned about all the issues you mentioned. No genocide isn't part of my life, but yes I "really care." I see the solution to genocide, hunger and discrimination to be education. The best way to influence other people to pursue education is by convincing them that apathy, ignorance and blind hatred are not cool, reminding them they can educate themselves, and supplying resources to do so. This website (and now it sounds like a sales pitch) is meant to one day do all that.

Basically, I agree with your line of thinking but I came to different conclusions.

(I also agree with the stuff brendan said - some people are more apathetic than others)

-nick

Tue, 01/30/2007 - 12:14pm

kid_prototype

Posts: 126
Joined: 2006-12-17

first i wanna thank you Razor for asking the most provocative questions so far. I have a lot to say on the subject but i need to make it quick cause it's 2:30 in the morning.

I think nick interpreted my definition of leadership pretty well. As someone who has considered myself to be anti-authoritarian, it seems pretty strange for me to be using the word leader in a positive light. But i think choosing to be a "leader" in the sense of taking action in your own life and in your community is a very positive thing, especially when the "leader" is someone in a traditionally subservient role in society. I've asked myself: Can there be leaders without followers? Because nobody wants to be a follower. I think the answer is yes. Others can be inspired to work with someone in a leadership role without being passive or taking orders. But it requires a strong community of people who can think for themselves to have leadership without coercion and hierarchy. I think Misled Youth can play a role in helping young people become independent thinkers and working together in this way where people find common gruop and help each other.

Another thing I wanted to address is the sense that many people have that "making a difference" is a very far away thing that has something to do with starving people on the other side of the world. But to me this sense of justice is a very personal every day thing. Like today I found out that a friend who has lived in this country half her life will have to go to trial next month to try and finally get citizenship status. There's a chance that her and her family may be deported. it outrages me that someone can have a whole life in this country, work hard and have a family, and have to live in constant fear of having all that taken away. It outrages me more because this is my friend. So what am i going to do about it?

So i think that viewing yourself as an agent of change is a very basic every day thing. Like sticking up for someone who's being picked on in school. Asking questions about the things you hear in the news. Supporting a friend who could be struggling with abuse. Breaking boundaries, being the first to cross an unchallenged line in the sand. Challenging unfair authority and policy. Speaking your mind.

there's this website that seems pretty appropriate to mention: http://www.whatkidscando.org/

youthlink.org is another one

and the last thing i wanna say real quick is that i think in certain ways youth are in a better position to come up with new ways of doing things that older people. For one, we haven't been completely jaded by years of the "suck it up, get a job" mentality. We have tons of ideas and see things from a fresh perspective. Also there is this notion of the "wounded healer" that i think really informs our work. The idea is that someone who has suffered through an injustice or hardship will gain the strength and wisdom to help others deal with the same issues.

here is some text i wrote about all this stuff last week that i think sums up a lot of these points:
Quote:

Quote:

It’s not easy to view ourselves as of agents of change in a world where injustice and oppression seem to prevail. We hear new horror stories every day. Sometimes they’re too close, pressing down on us and immobilizing us, until we start getting used to them. Sometimes they’re too far away, just vague atrocities that we feel we have no hope of touching or understanding, let alone resolving.

But many of us also realize that these struggles really come down to us -- individually and collectively -- simply trying to carve out space for ourselves to grow freely and create worlds we want to inhabit. It’s a matter of learning from our experiences and using our imaginations so that we can survive and thrive in a world we didn’t create but hope to change.

The Misled Youth Network has a special focus on organizing and activism because we see these actions as links closing the cycle of youth empowering themselves and their communities from the inside out. Many of us have been mistreated, misrepresented, and miseducated. Over time we recover, build community, learn, and express ourselves. When we get involved in making change, we’re passing on everything we’ve learned and moving closer to our visions for future generations.

In this section of the website, we’ve gathered info on a huge range of current struggles, movements, and issues with resource lists to help you get started on getting involved. We believe that all these struggles are linked in their common goals of freedom, justice, and human dignity. We don’t focus on any one ideology or strategy for change. We’ll support you whether you’re running for office or running from the law, as long as you’re pushing towards a world that you truly would want to live in.

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Wed, 01/31/2007 - 3:56am

Razor

Posts: 14
Joined: 2007-01-30

Well, so far everyone's made lots of interesting points. As to activism, I've had my own share of experience there. I'm (still...) in the process of setting up a GSA at my school, and it's not working out well at all.

I dislike the idea of setting everyone up to be leaders. It seems sad, harsh, mean, cruel, and a whole lot of other synonyms, but some people are not meant to lead. Some people really do make great followers, and that's NOT a bad thing, no matter what anyone says. People may want to be in the limelight as a leader, but someone has to be backstage making sure things go right.

If there was no hierarchy, if everyone was completely equal in all facets and means, then someone would naturally rise to the top almost immediately. It's been proven time and time again. The closest anyone's ever come to that is socialism, and we've all seen how well that works. Before long some dick-tator is trying to control everyone again, often in a worse way than before. So, I'm actually quite happy with our current system. We might view it as slow sometimes, but it actually does make much more progress than many other systems would under the same circumstance.

Example: George W. Bush. There will never be another Bible-thumping, redneck, smoked-himself-retarded, gun-toting, bumbling idiot for a president quite like him again, because people have learned that the old values and ideals are no longer applicable in today's society.

I'm going off on a tangent, though.

Activism is wonderful, that's great, but I definitely agree with kid_prototype to the fullest extent. Involvement with the people around you is the best and most effective way to make a difference.Young people just don't seem to understand that most of the time.

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 8:58am

ti-bak

Posts: 39
Joined: 2007-01-30

First off, I really appreciate you asking these perplexing questions. As a young activist, I encounter similar doubts and challenges. What i have realized is that its not about commanding leadership from your peers but earning respect. No one wants to cooperate with a power tripping so called "leader" who only perpetuates the same oppressive conduct of those who have power over the youth. I agree with Sarah (kid_prototype) that we can have leaders without followers given that we perceive leaders as catalysts and inspirations instead of managers of pawns. We can break apathy within ourselves and our peers, take initiative and be our own leaders.

Young activists may not have the experience of seasoned organizers, however, this makes us innovative, receptive to new knowledge and skills, creative and motivated. This is integral to keep the wheels turning or creating new ones to revolve. But what inspires us to change society? And what can spark this same motivation on other people?